To cut through the interruptions of the Democrats grandstanding in the questioning of Christine Ford this week, I’ve compiled a running transcript of just the interactions between Ford and the former sex crimes prosecutor chosen for the hearing, Ms. Rachel Mitchell.
This transcript is only the interactions and questions between Ms. Mitchell and Christine Ford with some text explaining breaks in their question and answer sessions. I saw a lot of people (myself includes) asking to see just these remarks, so here they are.
It should be noted that the Republican members of the committee used their 5 minutes for Ms. Mitchell to question Ford, whereas the Democrat members used their time to engage in largely hyperbolic grandstanding.
MITCHELL: Good morning, Dr. Ford.
MITCHELL: We haven’t met. My name is Rachel Mitchell.
FORD: Nice to meet you.
MITCHELL: I just wanted to tell you the — the first thing that struck me from your statement this morning was that you are terrified, and I just wanted to let you know I’m very sorry. That’s not right. I know this is stressful, and so I would like to set forth some guidelines that maybe will alleviate that a little bit. If I ask you a question that you don’t understand, please ask me to clarify it or ask it in a different way. When I ask questions, sometimes I’ll refer back to other information you’ve provided. If I do that and I get it wrong, please correct me.
MITCHELL: I’m not going to ask you to guess. I know it was a long time ago. If you do estimate, please let me know that you’re estimating, OK?
MITCHELL: OK. We’ve put before you — and I’m sure you have copies of them anyway — five pieces of information, and I wanted to go over them.
The first is a screenshot of a WhatsApp texting between you and somebody at the Washington Post. Do you have that in front of you?
MITCHELL: The first two texts were sent by you on July 6th. Is that correct?
MITCHELL: And then the last one sent by you was on July 10th?
MITCHELL: OK. Are those three comments accurate?
FORD: I will read them.
FORD: So, there’s one correction.
FORD: I’ve misused the word “bystander” as an adjective.
FORD: “Bystander” means someone that is looking at an assault, and — and the person named P.J. was not technically a bystander. I was writing very quickly with a sense of urgency. So I would not call him a bystander. He was downstairs and, you know, what I remember of him was he was a…a tall and very nice person. I didn’t know him well. But that he was downstairs, not anywhere near the event.
MITCHELL: OK. Thank you.
FORD: I’d like to take that word out if it’s possible.
MITCHELL: OK. Thank you for clarifying that. The second is the letter that you wrote to Senator Feinstein, dated the — July 30th of this year.
MITCHELL: Did you write the letter yourself?
FORD: I did.
MITCHELL: And I… since it’s dated July 30th, did you write it on that date?
FORD: I believe so. I — it sounds right. I was in Rehoboth, Delaware, at the time. I could look into my calendar and try to figure that out. It seemed…
MITCHELL: Was it written on or about that date?
FORD: Yes, yes. I traveled, I think, the 26th of July to Rehoboth, Delaware. So that makes sense because I wrote it from there.
MITCHELL: Is the letter accurate?
FORD: I’ll take a minute to read it.
FORD: I — I can read fast.
FORD: OK, so I have three areas that I’d like to address.
FORD: In the second paragraph, where it says this… “the assault occurred in a suburban Maryland area home…”
FORD: “at a gathering that included me and four others,” I can’t guarantee that there weren’t a few other people there, but they are not in my purview of my memory.
MITCHELL: Would it be fair to say there were at least four others?
MITCHELL: OK. What’s the second correction?
FORD: Oh, OK. The next sentence begins with “Kavanaugh physically pushed me into the bedroom,” I would say I can’t promise that Mark Judge didn’t assist with that. I don’t know. I was pushed from behind, so I don’t want to put that solely on him.
Grassley interrupts; wants to keep a 5-minute time limit. Mitchell tells Grassley she understands and didn’t see the ‘red light’ go off. Feinstein now goes on her diatribe.
MITCHELL: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
When we were stopped, you were going to tell us a third correction that you wanted to make on that statement — or, I’m sorry, the letter to Senator Feinstein.
FORD: It’s — it wasn’t a correction, but I wanted to comment on it, since we were looking at this letter, that I did see Mark Judge once at the Potomac Village Safeway after the time of the attack. And it would be helpful with anyone’s resources if — to figure out when he worked there if people are wanting more details from me about when the attack occurred. If we could find out when he worked there, then I could provide a more detailed timeline as to when the attack occurred.
MITCHELL: OK. And that — that is — so, that is not a correction in your statement?
FORD: It’s just — no.
MITCHELL: OK. You also wrote out a handwritten statement for the polygrapher when you took your polygraph test, is that correct?
MITCHELL: OK. And I — I see corrections on that where you crossed out, so I will go on to The Washington Post article that was…
MITCHELL: … originally published on September 16th of this year.
FORD: And should I just not look at this for accuracy, or we’re just going to leave that be?
MITCHELL: We may…
MITCHELL: … come back to it…
MITCHELL: … if you need to refer to it.
MITCHELL: On The Washington Post article, did you submit to an interview by a reporter with The Washington Post for that article to be written?
MITCHELL: OK. And then finally, was the statement that you provided this morning — I assume that, to the best of your recollection, that that was accurate?
FORD: That this whole article is accurate?
MITCHELL: No, no. The statement that you made this morning.
MITCHELL: OK. I want to talk to you about the day that this happened leading up to the gathering.
MITCHELL: In your statement this morning, have you told us everything that you remember about the day leading up to that?
MITCHELL: Let me ask just a few questions to make sure that you’ve thought of everything, OK? You indicated that you were at the country club swimming that day.
FORD: That’s my best estimate of how this could have happened.
MITCHELL: OK. And when you say “best estimate,” is that based on the fact that you said you went there pretty much every day?
FORD: (says something not uttered into the microphone)
MITCHELL: Is that a yes?
MITCHELL: OK. Do you recall prior to getting there… so I’m — I’m only talking about up to the gathering — had you had anything to drink?
FORD: Not at all.
MITCHELL: Were you on any sort of medication?
MITCHELL: Do you recall knowing before you went who was going to be at that gathering?
FORD: I recall that — expecting that Mark Judge and Leland would be at that gathering.
MITCHELL: OK. Do you recall an expectation that Brett Kavanaugh would be there?
FORD: I don’t recall whether or not I expected that.
MITCHELL: OK. Now let’s talk about the gathering up from the time you arrived until right when you went up the stairs, just that period of time, OK? What was the atmosphere like at the gathering?
FORD: Mr. Kavanaugh and Mr. Judge were extremely inebriated, they had clearly been drinking prior. And the other people at the party were not. The living room was…
MITCHELL: Can I ask you just to follow up on that? When you said it was clear that they had been drinking prior, do you mean prior to the time you had gotten there or prior to the time they had arrived?
FORD: Prior to the time that they arrived. I don’t recall who arrived first, though, whether it was me or them.
MITCHELL: OK, please continue.
FORD: OK. So I recall that the — I could — I can sketch a floor plan. I recall that it was a sparsely furnished, fairly modest living room. And it was not really a party like the news has made it sound. It was not. It was just a gathering that I assumed was going to lead to a party later on that those boys would attend because they tended to have parties later at night than I was allowed to stay out. So it was kind of a pre-gathering.
MITCHELL: Was it loud?
FORD: No, not in the living room.
MITCHELL: Besides the music that you’ve described that was playing in the bedroom, was there any other music or television or anything like that that was adding?
MITCHELL: OK. So there wasn’t a stereo playing downstairs?
Senator Leahy now wants his five minutes.
MITCHELL: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. (To Ford now) You told Senator Feinstein in your letter that you and four others were present. You’ve corrected that today to say it was at least four others. When you were interviewed by The Washington Post, you said that there were four boys present at the party. And then in your polygraph statement, you said there were four boys and two girls. When you say “two girls,” was that you and another or was that two other girls?
FORD: That was me and one other girl.
MITCHELL: And that other girl’s name?
MITCHELL: Leland Keyser now?
MITCHELL: OK. So then would it be fair to say at least P.J., Brett Kavanaugh, Mark Judge, Leland Ingham, at the time, and yourself were present, and possibly others?
FORD: And one — one other boy. So there were four — there were four boys. I just don’t know the name of the other boy, so.
MITCHELL: Have you been contacted by anybody saying, “Hey, I was at that party, too”?
FORD: No, I haven’t talked with anyone from that party.
MITCHELL: OK. Now, you’ve — you’ve been detailed about what happened once you got up the stairs. And so, I don’t need to go through that again.
FORD: (says something not uttered into the microphone)
MITCHELL: I’m sorry, go ahead.
FORD: You know, oh wait, I’m sorry. I just realized that I said something that was inaccurate. I said I hadn’t spoken with anyone from the party since that. I have spoken with Leland.
MITCHELL: OK. Thank you for correcting that. I appreciate that.
FORD: Yes, thank you.
MITCHELL: You’ve gone into detail about what happened once you went up the stairs. So I don’t feel like it’s necessary to go over those things again.
FORD: Thank you.
MITCHELL: Have you told us everything that you do remember about it?
FORD: I believe so. But if there are other questions I will — I can attempt to answer them.
MITCHELL: OK. You said that the music was solely coming from that room, is that correct?
MITCHELL: OK. And it was turned up once the three of you were inside that room, is that correct?
MITCHELL: OK. At some point, do you recall it being turned down?
FORD: I don’t remember if it was turned down once I was leaving the house. I don’t remember.
FORD: Likely, since I could hear them walking down the stairs very clearly from the bathroom.
MITCHELL: OK. And the bathroom was…
FORD: I’m sorry…
MITCHELL: … the door was closed when you heard this, is that correct?
FORD: I could hear them very clearly hitting the walls…
FORD: … going down the stairwell.
MITCHELL: In fact, in your letter, you said that they went down the stairs and they were talking with other people?
MITCHELL: in the house?
MITCHELL: Were you able to hear that conversation?
FORD: I was not able to hear that conversation. But I was aware that they were downstairs and that I would have to walk past them to get out of the house.
MITCHELL: OK. Now, let me make sure we’re on the same page. Were you not able to hear the conversation, or not able to understand the conversation?
FORD: I couldn’t hear the conversation. I was upstairs.
MITCHELL: OK. How do you know there was a conversation?
FORD: I’m just assuming, since it was a social gathering, people were talking. I don’t know.
MITCHELL: OK. In your letter, you…
FORD: I could hear them talking as they went down the stairwell, they were laughing, and…
MITCHELL: OK. In your letter you wrote, “Both loudly stumbled down the stairwell, at which point other persons at the house were talking with them.” Does that ring a bell?
FORD: Yes. I had to walk past everyone to leave the house, so…
FORD: I’m not…
MITCHELL: In your letter…
FORD: Maybe I’m not understanding. I’m sorry.
MITCHELL: OK. Your next sentence – let me try to clarify this. After you said “other persons at the house were talking with them,” the letter goes on with the very next sentence, “I exited the bathroom, ran outside of the house and went home.”
MITCHELL: OK. You said that you do not remember how you got home, is that correct?
FORD: I do not remember.
FORD: … other than I did not drive home.
MITCHELL: OK. I’m going to show you – if somebody could provide to you – a map of the various peoples’ houses at the time. And if you could verify that this is where you were living at the time.
FORD: Where I was living at the time?
FORD: OK. OK.
Crosstalk between Harris and Grassley about everyone seeing a copy of the map.
MITCHELL: OK. Mr. Chairman, Senator Harris, we do have a… a blown-up copy of this for the members to view, if that’s helpful.
FORD: OK, I’m going to put check marks next to homes that I can confirm are the correct locations, and then an X or a question mark when I don’t know where these people live.
MITCHELL: I’m only asking you to confirm if that map accurately shows where you were living at the time.
FORD: Where I lived at the time. So I can’t see the street name, but I’m happy to refer to the address or the neighborhood.
MITCHELL: OK, could you tell us that?
FORD: Yes. It’s River Falls.
FORD: It’s near the — like — what is the place called? The Naval Research Center on Clara Barton Parkway.
MITCHELL: OK, was that a house or an apartment?
FORD: It was my parents’ home.
MITCHELL: All right. OK.
Now it’s Durbin’s 5 minutes to interrupt the questioning. Ford utters her “100% comment” when asked by Durbin if Kavanaugh was her alleged attacker. Then there is a recess.
MITCHELL: Thank you, Senator. I have a blow-up here to my right of the map that was shown to you. The address that’s indicated on here as belonging to your family is what all the property tax records showed as being your address.
MITCHELL: Just to put it in perspective, I’d like to show you a further-out — a zoomed-out picture, so that we can put it in perspective. So, we can show the greater Washington area. Of course, you can see the Beltway on that… the Beltway area.
MITCHELL: Then number three, if we could look at that, we drew a one-mile radius around the country club and then we calculated from the farthest point.
Harris interrupts – again- complaining about not seeing the map too.
MITCHELL: OK. Looking at number — the third thing here, we calculated the distance from the closest point to your house from a mile radius of the country club and then the farthest point. You can see it’s 6.2 and, of course, 8.2 miles.
MITCHELL: And you’ve described this as being near the country club, wherever this house was, is that right?
FORD: I would describe it as it’s somewhere between my house and the country club in that vicinity that’s shown in your picture. And the country club is about 20 — a 20-minute drive from my parents’ home.
MITCHELL: A 20-minute drive. And, of course, I’ve marked as the crow flies.
MITCHELL: Would it be fair to say that somebody drove you somewhere, either to the party or home from the party?
MITCHELL: OK. Has anyone come forward to say to you, “Hey, remember, I was the one that drove you home?”
MITCHELL: OK. In your July 6th text to The Washington Post that you looked at earlier, you said that this happened in the mid ’80s. In your letter to Senator Feinstein you said it occurred in the early ’80s.
MITCHELL: In your polygraph statement you said it was high school summer in ’80s, and you actually had written in and this is one of the corrections I referred to early and then you crossed that out. Later in your interview with The Washington Post, you were more specific. You believed it occurred in the summer of 1982 and you said at the end of your sophomore year.
MITCHELL: You said the same thing I believe in your prepared statement. How were you able to narrow down the timeframe?
FORD: I can’t give the exact date. And I would like to be more helpful about the date, and if I knew when Mark Judge worked at the Potomac Safeway, then I would be able to be more helpful in that way. So I’m just using memories of when I got my driver’s license. I was 15 at the time. And I — I did not drive home from that party or to that party, and once I did have my driver’s license, I liked to drive myself.
MITCHELL: I’d assume the legal driving age was 16.
MITCHELL: OK. Now, you’ve talked about attending therapy. In your text to The Washington Post dated July 6 – so that’s the very first statement we have from you… you put in there, quote, “have therapy records talking about it.”
MITCHELL: I want to make sure I understand that. Did you already have your therapy records at that time?
FORD: I had looked at them online to see if they existed, yes.
MITCHELL: OK. So this was something that was available to you via a computer, like a patient portal?
FORD: Actually, no, it was in the office of a provider.
FORD: She helped me go through the record to locate whether I had had record of this conversation that I had remembered.
MITCHELL: Did you show a full or partial set of those marriage therapy records to The Washington Post?
FORD: I don’t remember. I remember summarizing for her what they said. So I’m not – I’m not quite sure if I actually gave her the record.
MITCHELL: OK. So it’s possible that the reporter did not see these notes.
FORD: I don’t know if she’s – I can’t recall whether she saw them directly or if I just told her what they said.
MITCHELL: Have you shown them to anyone else besides your counsel?
FORD: Just the counsel.
MITCHELL: OK. Would it be fair to say that Brett Kavanaugh’s name is not listed in those notes?
FORD: His name is not listed in those notes.
MITCHELL: Would it also be fair to say that the therapist notes that we’ve been talking about say that there were four boys in the room?
FORD: It describes the sexual assault and it says erroneously by four boys. So the therapist got the content of it wrong.
MITCHELL: And you corrected that to The Washington Post reporter, correct?
Now it’s Whitehouse’s 5-minute turn to interrupt the questioning.
MITCHELL: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Dr. Ford, The Washington Post reported in their September 16th article that you did show them therapist notes. Is that incorrect?
FORD: I don’t remember physically showing her a note.
FORD: Perhaps my counsel did. I don’t — I don’t remember physically showing her my copy of the note.
FORD: But I…I just don’t remember. I’m sorry. I have retrieved a physical copy of those medical records.
MITCHELL: OK, thank you. You also attended individual therapy. Did you show any of those notes to the reporter from The Washington Post?
FORD: Again, I don’t remember if I showed her…like, something that I summarized, or if I just spoke about it or if she saw it in my counsel’s office. I can’t – I… I don’t know for sure, but I certainly spoke with her about the 2013 record with the individual therapist.
MITCHELL: And Brett Kavanaugh’s name is not in those notes, is that correct?
MITCHELL: OK. In reading The Washington Post article, it mentions that this incident that we’re here about contributed to anxiety and PTSD problems with which you have struggled. The word contributed, does that mean that there are other things that have happened that have also contributed to anxiety and PTSD?
FORD: I think that’s a great question. I think the etiology of anxiety and PTSD is multifactorial. So that was certainly a critical risk… risk that…we would call a risk factor in science, so that would be a predictor of the symptoms that I now have.
It doesn’t mean that other things that have happened in my life would have… would make it worse or better. There are other risk factors as well.
MITCHELL: So have there been other things, then, that have contributed to the anxiety and PTSD that you suffered?
FORD: Well, I think there’s, sort of, biological predispositions that everyone in here has for particular disorders. So I can’t rule out that I would have some biological predisposition to be, you know…
MITCHELL: What about…
FORD: … an anxious type person.
MITCHELL: … what about environmental?
FORD: Environmentally, not that I can think of.
FORD: Certainly, no – nothing as striking as that event.
MITCHELL: OK. In your interview with The Washington Post, you said that you told your husband early in your marriage that you had been a victim of, and I quote, “physical abuse.” In your statement, you said that before you were married, you told him that you had experienced, quote, “a sexual assault.” Do these two things refer to the same incident?
MITCHELL: And at either point on these two times, did you use any names?
MITCHELL: OK. May I ask, Dr. Ford, how did you get to Washington?
FORD: In an airplane.
MITCHELL: OK. It’s — I ask that because it’s been reported by the press that you would not submit to an interview with the committee because of your fear of flying. Is… is that true?
FORD: Well, I was willing. I was hoping that they would come to me, but then I realized that was an unrealistic request.
MITCHELL: It would’ve been a quicker trip for me.
FORD: Yes. So that was certainly what I was hoping, was to avoid having to get on an airplane, but I eventually was able to get up the gumption with the help of some friends, and get on the plane.
MITCHELL: OK. When you were here in the mid-Atlantic area back in August, end of July,
August, how did you get here?
FORD: Also by airplane. I come here once a year during the summer to visit my family.
FORD: I’m sorry, not here. I go to Delaware.
MITCHELL: OK. In fact, you fly fairly frequently for your hobbies and your — you’ve had to fly for your work. Is that true?
FORD: Correct, unfortunately.
MITCHELL: You — you were a consulting biostatistician in Sydney, Australia. Is that right?
FORD: I’ve never been to Australia, but the company that I worked for is based in Australia, and they have an office in San Francisco, California.
FORD: I… I don’t think I’ll make it to Australia.
MITCHELL: It is long. I also saw on your C.V. that you list the following interests of surf travel, and you, in parentheses “Hawaii, Costa Rica, South Pacific islands and French Polynesia.” Have you been all to those places?
MITCHELL: By airplane?
MITCHELL: And your interests also include oceanography, Hawaiian and Tahitian culture. Did you travel by air as a part of those interests?
MITCHELL: All right. Thank you very much.
FORD: Easier for me to travel going that direction when it’s a vacation.
Klobuchar gets their 5 minutes now.
MITCHELL: Thank you. Dr. Ford, we’ve talked about the day and the night that you’ve described in the summer of 1982. And thank you for being willing to do that. I know it’s difficult. I’d like to shift gears and discuss the last several months.
MITCHELL: In your statement, you said that on July 6th, you had a, quote, “sense of urgency to relay the information to the Senate and the president.” Did you contact either the Senate or the president on or before July 6th?
FORD: No, I did not. I did not know how to do that.
MITCHELL: OK. Prior to July 6th, had you spoken to any member of Congress? And when I say Congress, I mean the Senate or the House of Representatives or any congressional staff members about your allegations?
MITCHELL: Why did you contact the Washington Post, then, on July 6th?
FORD: So, I was panicking because I knew the timeline was short for the decision and people were giving me advice on the beach. People who don’t know about the processes, but they were giving me advice. And many people told me, “You need to hire a lawyer,” and I didn’t do that. I didn’t understand why I would need a lawyer. Somebody said, “Call the New York Times, call the Washington Post, put in an anonymous tip, go to your congressperson.” And when I weighed those options, I felt like the best option was to try to do the civic route which is to go to my congressperson, who happens to be Anna Eshoo. So I called her office and I also put in the anonymous tip to The Washington Post. And neither — unfortunately, neither got back to me in — before the selection of the nominee.
MITCHELL: You testified that Congresswoman Eshoo’s office contacted you on July 9th, is that right?
FORD: They contacted me the date that the nominee was announced, so that seems likely what…
MITCHELL: Had you talked to… about your allegations with anyone in her office before the date of July 9th?
FORD: I told the receptionist on the phone.
MITCHELL: OK. On July 10th, you texted The Washington Post again, which was really the third time, is that right? Second date, third time.
FORD: Let’s see. (Ford goes off Mic and converses with her attorney a moment)
MITCHELL: And you texted — been advised to contact senators or New York Times, haven’t heard back from Washington Post. Who…
MITCHELL: … advised you to contact senators or The New York Times?
FORD: Beach friends…
FORD: … coming up with ideas of how I could try to get to people because people weren’t responding to me very quickly. So very quickly, they responded to that text for what… unknown reason that once I sent that encrypted text, they responded very quickly.
MITCHELL: Did you contact The New York Times?
MITCHELL: OK. Why not?
FORD: I wasn’t interested in pursuing the media route, particularly. So I felt like one was enough, The Washington Post, and I was nervous about doing that. My preference was to talk with my congressperson.
MITCHELL: OK. The Washington Post texted back that someone would get in touch… get you in touch with a reporter. Did you subsequently talk to a reporter with The Washington Post?
FORD: Yes, under the encrypted app and off the record.
MITCHELL: OK. Who was that reporter?
FORD: Emma Brown.
MITCHELL: OK. The person who ultimately wrote the story on September 16th?
MITCHELL: OK. Did you talk to any member of Congress – and, again, remember Congress includes the Senate, or the House of Representatives or any congressional staff members – about your allegations between July 10th and July 30th, which was the date of your letter to Senator Feinstein?
FORD: Yes, I met with Congresswoman Eshoo’s staff. And I think that’s July 18th, the Wednesday, and then on the Friday I met with the congresswoman herself.
MITCHELL: OK. When you met with her, did you meet with her alone or did someone come with you?
FORD: I was alone. She had a staff person.
MITCHELL: OK. What did you talk about with Congresswoman Eshoo and her staff on July 18th and the 20th?
FORD: I described the night of the incident and we spent time speaking about that. And I asked her how to… what my options were in terms of going forward and how to get that information relayed forward. And I also talked to her about fears of whether this was confidential information. And she talked about the constituent confidentiality principle.
MITCHELL: Thank you.
Sen. Coons gets their 5 minutes.
MITCHELL: Dr. Ford, we were talking about you meeting in July with Congresswoman Eshoo.
MITCHELL: Did you talk about your allegations with any Republican member of Congress or congressional staff?
FORD: I did not. Where I live, the congresswoman is a Democrat.
Was it communicated to you by your counsel or someone else, that the committee had asked to interview
you and that — that they offered to come out to California to do so?
Michael Bromwich (one of Ford’s lawyers who also repped former DOJ Andrew McCabe) interrupts and objects to the above line of questioning as a violation on attorney-client privilege. It’s decided it does not and the questioning proceeds.
MITCHELL: Yes. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
GRASSLEY: OK. Proceed, then.
MITCHELL: Before July 30th, the date on your letter to Senator Feinstein, had you retained counsel with regard to these allegations?
FORD: No. I didn’t think — I didn’t understand why I would need lawyers, actually. That’s what…I just didn’t know.
MITCHELL: A lot of people have that feeling. Let’s talk about the letter that you wrote on July 30th. You asked Senator Feinstein to maintain confidentiality, quote, “until”…
BROMWICH INTERJECTS: Wait until she retrieves it.
MITCHELL: Oh, I’m sorry.
FORD: OK. I’m just trying to look for it, which one?
BROMWICH: I think it’s — I think it’s the (inaudible).
Grassley asks the clock be stopped while they look for the item.
FORD: Oh, I found it.
MITCHELL: OK. You asked Senator Feinstein to maintain confidentiality “until we have had further opportunity to speak,” and then said you were available to speak further vacationing in the Mid-Atlantic until August 7th. Is that correct?
FORD: The last line, is that what you’re — I’m — I’m now just catching up with you, sorry. I’m a little slower. My mind is getting a little tired. “I am available to speak further, should you wish to discuss. I am” — yes, I was in Delaware until August 7.
FORD: And after that, I went to New Hampshire and then back to California.
MITCHELL: Did you talk with anybody about this letter before you sent it?
FORD: I talked with Anna Eshoo’s office.
MITCHELL: OK. And why did you talk to Congresswoman Eshoo’s office about that letter?
FORD: Because they were willing to hand-deliver it to Senator Feinstein.
MITCHELL: OK. Did anyone help you write the letter?
MITCHELL: OK. After you sent your letter, did you or anyone on your behalf speak to Senator Feinstein personally or with any Senate staffer?
FORD: I had a phone call with Senator Feinstein.
MITCHELL: OK. And when was that?
FORD: That was while I was still in Delaware, so before August 7th.
MITCHELL: OK. And how many times did you speak with Senator Feinstein?
MITCHELL: OK. What did you talk about?
FORD: She asked me some questions about the incident.
FORD: And I answered those questions.
MITCHELL: OK. Was that the extent of – the gist of the conversation?
FORD: Yes, it was a fairly brief phone… phone call.
MITCHELL: OK. Did you ever give Senator Feinstein or anyone else the permission to release that letter?
FORD: Not that I know of, no.
MITCHELL: OK. Between the letter date, July 30th and August the 7th, did you speak with any other person about your allegations?
FORD: Could you say the dates again?
MITCHELL: Between the letter date of July 30 and August 7… so, while you were still in Delaware… did you speak with any other person about your allegations?
FORD: I’m just trying to remember what dates that.
Grassley interjects and clarifies that this question is to the “exclusion of any lawyers that she may have spoken with…”
FORD: Correct — I think correct, then. I was interviewing lawyers…
FORD: …but I was not…
FORD: … speaking personally about it.
MITCHELL: Aside from Lawyers that you were seeking to possibly hire to represent you, did you speak to anybody else about it during that period of time?
FORD: I was staying with my parents at the time.
MITCHELL: Did you talk to them about it?
FORD: Definitely not.
MITCHELL: OK. So would it be fair to say that you retained counsel during that time period of July 30th to August 7th?
FORD: I can’t remember the exact date, but it was the — I was interviewing lawyers during that period of time, sitting in the car in the driveway and in the Walgreens parking lot in Rehoboth, Delaware. And I’m trying to figure out how the whole system works of interviewing lawyers and how to pick one, et cetera, so.
MITCHELL: You testified earlier that you had… you didn’t see the need for lawyers. And now, you’re trying to hire them. What made you change your mind?
FORD: It seemed like most of the individuals that I had told, which didn’t… the… the total number… the total was not very high. But those persons advised me to, at this point, get a lawyer for advice about whether to push forward or to stay back.
MITCHELL: Did that include Congresswoman Eshoo and Senator Feinstein?
Sen. Blumenthal gets his 5 minutes.
MITCHELL: Thank you. And we’ve heard this morning several times that you did take a polygraph, and that was on August the 7th. Is that right?
FORD: I believe so. It was the day I was flying from BWI to Manchester, New Hampshire.
MITCHELL: OK. Why did you decide to take a polygraph?
FORD: I — I didn’t see any reason not to do it.
MITCHELL: Were you advised to do that?
Bromwich objects again on the basis of privileged communications. Grassley instructs Ford to answer to the extent which would not violate privilege.
FORD: Based on the advice of the counsel, I was happy to undergo the polygraph test, although I found it extremely stressful, much longer than I anticipated. I told my whole life story, I felt like, but I endured it. It was fine.
MITCHELL: I understand they can be that way. Have you ever taken any other polygraphs in your life?
MITCHELL: OK. You went to see a gentleman by the name of Jeremiah Hanafin to serve as the polygrapher. Did anyone advise you on that choice?
FORD: Yes, I believe his name was Jerry.
MITCHELL: Jerry Hanafin.
MITCHELL: OK. Did anyone advise you on that choice?
FORD: I don’t understand the — the — yeah, I didn’t choose him myself. He was the person that came to do the polygraph test.
MITCHELL: OK. He actually conducted the polygraph, not in his office in Virginia, but actually, at the hotel next to Baltimore Washington Airport. Is that right?
MITCHELL: Why was that location chosen for the polygraph?
FORD: I had left my grandmother’s funeral at Fort Lincoln Cemetery that day, and was on tight schedule to get a plane to Manchester, New Hampshire, so he was willing to come to me, which was appreciated.
MITCHELL: So he administered a polygraph on the day that you attended your grandmother’s funeral.
FORD: Yeah, correct.
FORD: Or it might have been the next day. I spent the night in a hotel, so (inaudible) the exact day.
MITCHELL: Have you ever had discussions with anyone, besides your attorneys, on how to take a polygraph?
MITCHELL: And I don’t just mean countermeasures, but I mean just any sort of tips or anything like that.
FORD: No. I was scared of the test itself but was comfortable that I could tell the information, and the test would reveal whatever it was going to reveal. I didn’t expect it to be as long as it was going to be, so it was a little bit stressful.
MITCHELL: Have you ever given tips or advice to somebody who was looking to take a polygraph test?
MITCHELL: OK. Did you pay for the polygraph yourself?
FORD: I don’t…I don’t… I don’t think so.
MITCHELL: OK. Do you know who did pay for the polygraph?
FORD: Not yet, so.
MITCHELL: Did…you…you have the hand-written statement that you wrote out. Did anyone assist you in writing that statement?
FORD: No, but you can tell how anxious I was by the terrible handwriting.
MITCHELL: Did you – we touched on it earlier – did you know that the committee has requested the…not only the charts from the polygraph test, but also any audio or video recording of the polygraph test?
MITCHELL: Were you audio- and video-recorded when you were taking that test?
FORD: OK, so I remember being hooked up to a machine, like, be… being placed onto my body, and being asked a lot of questions, and crying a lot. That’s my primary memory of that test. I don’t know. I know he took laborious detail into explaining what he was going to be doing, but I was just focused on kind of what I was going to say and my fear about that. I wasn’t listening to every detail about the… what… whether it was audio- or video-recorded.
MITCHELL: Well, you were in a hotel room, right?
MITCHELL: A regular hotel room with a bed and bathroom?
FORD: No, no, no. It was a conference room.
FORD: So I was sitting on a chair, and he was behind me.
MITCHELL: Did you note any cameras in the room?
FORD: Well, he had a computer set up, so I guess I assumed that he was somehow taping and recording me.
MITCHELL: OK. So you assumed you were being video and audio recorded?
MITCHELL: But you don’t know for sure?
FORD: I don’t know for sure.
MITCHELL: OK, thank you.
Recess for lunch is called.
MITCHELL: Good afternoon.
MITCHELL: When we left off, we were still talking about the polygraph, and I believe you said it hasn’t been paid for yet. Is that correct?
(UNKNOWN SPEAKER/ Possibly Bromwich): Let me put an end to this misery. Her lawyers have paid for her polygraph. As is routine.
MITCHELL: Dr. Ford, do you expect the price of that polygraph to be passed on to you?
FORD: I’m not sure yet. I haven’t taken a look at all of the costs involved in this. We’ve relocated now twice, so I haven’t kept track of all of that paperwork, but I’m sure I have a lot of work to do to catch up on all of that later.
MITCHELL: I… I get you have a lot going on, and you’ve had that for several months, but is it your understanding that someone else is going to assist you with some of these fees, including the cost for your polygraph?
FORD: I’m aware that there’s been several GoFundMe sites that I haven’t had a chance to figure out how to manage those because I’ve never had one done for me.
MITCHELL: And I’m sorry, several what?
(UNKNOWN Speaker repeats for Ford): GoFundMe.
FORD: GoFundMe sites that have raised money, primarily for our security detail. So I’m not even quite sure how to collect that money or…and how to distribute it yet. I haven’t been able to focus on that.
MITCHELL: OK. In your testimony this morning, you stated that Senator Feinstein sent you a letter on August 31st of this year, is that right?
FORD: August 31st let me see.
FORD: I sent her a letter on July 30th. And I don’t have the date. I’d have to pull up my e-mail to find out the date of her e-mail to me saying that – it was right before the hearings -that she was going to maintain the confidentiality of the … of the letter.
MITCHELL: Say that again, it was right before the hearings, then what?
FORD: That’s my memory, but I could look it up for you. If you would like the exact date, I could pull it up on my e-mail.
MITCHELL: Yes, I just…I want to make sure…
(UNKNOWN Speaker interjects): what was the date, counsel?
MITCHELL: I want to make sure I understood what she — you said.
(UNKNOWN Speaker, possibly Ford’s Counsel responds): That document’s been turned over to — in response to a request for documents. You have it.
MITCHELL: Thank you, counsel. I want to make sure I understood what you said. Was it your understanding, it was going to be kept confidential up until right before the hearing?
FORD: It was my understanding that it was going to be kept confidential period.
MITCHELL: Period? OK. Between your polygraph on August the 7th and your receipt of the letter from Senator Feinstein, did you or anyone on your behalf speak to any member of Congress or congressional staff about these allegations?
FORD: I personally did not.
MITCHELL: So my question was, did you or anybody on your behalf.
FORD: I don’t — what do you mean, did someone speak for me?
MITCHELL: Somebody that worked — is working with you or helping you. Did somebody at your behest on your behalf speak to somebody in Congress or staff?
FORD: I’m not sure.
FORD: I’m not sure how those exchanges went, but I didn’t speak to anyone.
MITCHELL: OK. Is it possible that somebody did?
FORD: I… I… I think so, it would be possible. I… I’m guessing it would be possible, but I don’t know.
(Bromwich objects again): Excuse me. You’ve all asked her not to guess, and now you’re asking her what’s possible. So I think if you want to ask her what she knows, you should ask her what she knows.
MITCHELL: Is that an objection, counsel?
Bromwich confirms it is an objection.
MITCHELL: I’ll have the chair rule on that.
FORD: I don’t know what the… I don’t understand.
Grassley responds that the question should be answered unless there is a legal reason not to. Questions resume.
FORD: So I don’t totally understand the question, but I didn’t speak with anyone during that timeframe other than my counsel.
MITCHELL: OK. You’ve said repeatedly that you did not think that that letter that you wrote on July 30th was going to be released to the public, is that correct?
MITCHELL: OK. And is it true that you did not authorize it to be released at any time?
MITCHELL: OK. Besides your attorneys, did you provide — you provided that letter to Senator Feinstein, is that correct?
FORD: I provided her a letter on July 30th.
MITCHELL: We’re talking about the July 30th…
MITCHELL: … letter.
MITCHELL: Did you… and you provided that letter to Senator Feinstein, correct?
FORD: (says something not picked up by the Mic)
MITCHELL: Is that a yes?
MITCHELL: And you provided the letter to Representative Eshoo to deliver to Senator Feinstein?
MITCHELL: Besides those two individuals, Representative Eshoo and Senator Feinstein, and your attorneys did you provide that letter to anyone else?
MITCHELL: Do you know how that letter became public?
MITCHELL: OK. After that letter was made public or leaked, did you reach back out to The Washington Post?
FORD: I reached out to The Washington… well, they were continuously reaching out to me and I was not responding. But the time that I did respond and agree to do the sit-down was once the reporters started showing up at my home and at my workplace.
Senator Spartacus gets his 5 minutes.
MITCHELL: Dr. Ford, in choosing attorneys, did anyone help you with the choice on who to choose?
FORD: Various people referred me to lawyers they knew in the Washington, D.C. area. So as you know, I grew up in this area, so I asked some family members and friends and they would — they referred me to, like, divorce attorneys that might know somebody, that might know somebody and ended up interviewing several law firms from the D.C. area.
MITCHELL: And did anybody besides friends and family refer you to any attorneys?
FORD: I think that the staff of Dianne Feinstein’s office suggested the possibility of some attorneys.
MITCHELL: OK. Including the two that are sitting on either side of you?
FORD: Not both of them, no.
MITCHELL: OK. We’ve heard a lot about FBI investigations. When did you personally first request an FBI investigation?
FORD: I guess when we first started talking about the possibility of a hearing; I was hoping that there would be an — a more thorough investigation.
MITCHELL: Would that investigation have been something that you would have submitted to an interview?
FORD: I would be happy to cooperate with the FBI, yes.
MITCHELL: Would you have been happy to submit to an interview by staff members from this committee?
MITCHELL: OK. Besides… you mentioned some GoFundMe accounts – besides those, are there any other efforts outside of your own personal finances to pay for your legal fees or any of the costs occurred… incurred?
FORD: It’s my understanding that some of my team is working on a pro bono basis, but I don’t know the exact details. And there are members of the community in Palo Alto that have the means to contribute to help me with the security detail, etc.
MITCHELL: Have you been provided…
BROMWICH: I… I can help you with that. Both her co-counsel are doing this pro bono. We are not being paid and we have no expectation of being paid.
MITCHELL: Thank you, counsel. Have you seen any of the questions that I was going to ask you today?
MITCHELL: Have you… you’ve been asked a few questions by other people as well, have you seen any of those questions in advance?
MITCHELL: Have you been told them in advance?
MITCHELL: And…and likewise with my questions, have you been told my questions in advance?
FORD: Definitely not.
MITCHELL: OK. You mentioned about some possible information, such as when Mark Judge worked at the supermarket. I want to ask you about someone else. You mentioned that there was a classmate who was really sort of the connection between you and Brett Kavanaugh. Who was this person?
FORD: I — I think that that case with Mr. Whelan, who was looking at my LinkedIn page and then trying to blame the person, I just don’t feel like it’s right for us to be talking about that.
MITCHELL: I’m not trying to blame anybody, I just want to know who the common friend that you and…
FORD: The person that Mr. Whelan was trying to say looked like Mr. Kavanaugh.
MITCHELL: OK. How long did you know this person?
FORD: Maybe for a couple of months we socialized, but he also was a member of the same country club and I know his younger brother as well.
MITCHELL: OK. So a couple of months before this took place?
MITCHELL: OK. How would you characterize your relationship with him, both before and after this took place, this person?
FORD: He was somebody that, we use the phrase, I went out with — I wouldn’t say date — I went out with for a few months. That was how we termed it at the time. And after that we were distant friends and ran into each other periodically at Columbia Country Club, but I didn’t see him often.
FORD: But I saw his brother and him several times.
MITCHELL: Was this person the only common link between you and Mr. — Judge Kavanaugh?
FORD: He’s the only one that I would be able to name right now — that I would like to not name, but you know who I mean. And — but there are certainly other members of Columbia Country Club that were common friends or they were more acquaintances of mine and friends of Mr. Kavanaugh.
MITCHELL: OK. Can you describe all of the other social interactions that you had with Mr. Kavanaugh?
FORD: Briefly, yes I can. There were during freshman and sophomore year, particularly my sophomore year which would have been his junior year of high school, four to five parties that my friends and I attended that were attended also by him.
MITCHELL: Did anything happen at these events like we’re talking about, besides the time we’re talking about?
FORD: There was no sexual assault at any of those events. Is that what you’re asking?
FORD: Yes, those were just parties.
MITCHELL: Or anything inappropriate is what I meant.
FORD: Well maybe we can go into more detail when there’s more time, I feel time pressure on that question, yes.
FORD: Happy to answer in further detail if you want me to.
GRASSLEY: I’m sorry, go ahead and finish answering your question.
FORD: Oh OK. Did you want me to describe those parties or…
A question of time limits pops up in the middle of this question; continuance is suggested by Grassley.
FORD: I’m just happy to describe them if you wanted me to and I’m happy to not. It’s just whatever you want.
MITCHELL: Maybe this will…
FORD: Whatever is your preference.
MITCHELL: …cut to the chase. My question is was there anything else that was sexually inappropriate, any inappropriate sexual behavior on the part of Mr. Kavanaugh towards you at any of these other functions?
Sen. Harris gets their 5 minutes.
MITCHELL: Dr. Ford, we’re almost done. Just a couple clean up questions first of all. Which – which of your two lawyers did Senator Feinstein’s office recommend?
FORD: The Katz…
MITCHELL: I’m sorry?
FORD: The Katz firm.
MITCHELL: OK. And when you – when you did leave that night, did Leland Keyser – now Keyser ever follow up with you and say hey, what happened to you?
FORD: I have had communications with her recently.
MITCHELL: I’m talking about like the next day.
FORD: Oh no, she didn’t know about the event. She was downstairs during the event and I did not share it with her.
MITCHELL: OK. Have you been in – are you aware that the three people at the party besides yourself and Brett Kavanaugh have given statements under penalty of felony to the committee?
MITCHELL: And are you aware of what those statements say?
MITCHELL: Are you aware that they say that they have no memory or knowledge of such a party?
MITCHELL: OK. Do you have any particular motives to ascribe to Leland?
FORD: I guess we could take those one at a time. Leland has significant health challenges, and I’m happy that she’s focusing on herself and getting the health treatment that she needs, and she let me know that she needed her lawyer to take care of this for her, and she texted me right afterward with an apology and good wishes, and etc, So I’m glad that she’s taking care of herself. I don’t expect that P.J. and Leland would remember this evening. It was a very unremarkable party. It was not one of their more notorious parties, because nothing remarkable happened to them that evening. They were downstairs. And Mr. Judge is a different story. I would expect that he would remember that this happened.
MITCHELL: Understood. Senator Harris just questioned you from the Maricopa County Protocol on Sexual Assault. The… that’s the paper she was holding out. Are you aware that… and you know, I’ve — I’ve been really impressed today because you’ve talked about norepinephrine and cortisol, and what we call in the profession, basically, the neurobiological effects of trauma. Have you also educated yourself on the best way to get to memory and truth, in terms of interviewing victims of trauma?
FORD: For me interviewing victims of trauma?
MITCHELL: No, to…
MITCHELL: The best way to do it, the best practices for interviewing victims of trauma.
MITCHELL: OK. Would you believe me if I told you that there’s no study that says that this setting in five-minute increments is the best way to do that?
Bromwich says that’s fine.
MITCHELL: Thank you, Counsel.
Did you know that the best way to do it is to have a trained interviewer talk to you one-on-one in a private setting, and to let you do the talking, just let you do a narrative? Did you know that?
FORD: That makes a… a lot of sense.
MITCHELL: It does make a lot of sense, doesn’t it?
MITCHELL: And then to follow up, obviously, to fill in the details and… and ask for clarification. Does that make sense, as well?
MITCHELL: And…and the research is done by a lot of people in the child abuse field. Two of the more prominent ones in the sexual assault field are Geisel and Fisher, who’ve talked about it, and it’s called a cognitive interview. This is not a cognitive interview. Did anybody ever advise you from Senator Feinstein’s office, or from Representative Eshoo’s office to go
get a forensic interview?
MITCHELL: Instead, you were advised to get an attorney and take a polygraph. Is that right?
FORD: Many people advised me to get an attorney. Once I had an attorney, my attorney and I discussed a … using the polygraph.
MITCHELL: And instead of submitting to an interview in California, we’re having a hearing here today in five-minute increments. Is that right?
FORD: I… I agree that’s what was agreed upon by the collegial group here.
MITCHELL: OK. Thank you. I have no further questions.